Their Chosen Ground
22 hours ago
Monday, 31 October 2011
Islamophobia and Antisemitism: Same message, different minority.
Below are quotes which highlight the disturbing similarities between Islamophobic and Antisemitic messages.
Ten statements by 'anti-jihad' writer Robert Spencer and Nazi propagandist Julius Streicher are compared.
Julius Streicher was the editor of Der Stuermer, a Nazi paper that spread vicious Antisemitic propaganda from 1923-1945. As Nazi Party leader in Nuremburg he organized the destruction of synagogues in the city.
He was not directly involved in the Holocaust but was convicted of crimes against humanity after WWII. He was found guilty of inciting hatred against Jews in Der Stuermer and was executed in 1946.
Robert Spencer is a prominent critic of Islam who runs the Jihadwatch.org website. He is the author of several best selling books on Islam and he has spoken on Fox News, CNN, NBC and other news channels.
He has organized protests against the construction of mosques in New York. He has advised the FBI on Islam and his books were recommended by the FBI for its agents.
The following is a comparison of their views on Muslims and Jews respectively.
1 Muslims/Jews have a religious duty to conquer the world.
“Islam understands its earthly mission to extend the law of Allah over the world by force.”
Robert Spencer.
“Do you not know that the God of the Old Testament orders the Jews to consume and enslave the peoples of the earth?”
Julius Streicher.
2 The Left enables Muslims/Jews.
“The principal organs of the Left...has consistently been warm and welcoming toward Islamic supremacism.”
Robert Spencer.
“The communists pave the way for him (the Jew).”
Julius Streicher.
3 Governments do nothing to stop Muslims/Jews.
“FDI* acts against the treason being committed by national, state, and local government officials...in their capitulation to the global jihad and Islamic supremacism.”
(Freedom Defense Initiative, Robert Spencer/Pamela Geller organisation).
“The government allows the Jew to do as he pleases. The people expect action to be taken.”
Julius Streicher.
4 Muslims/Jews cannot be trusted.
“When one is under pressure, one may lie in order to protect the religion, this is taught in the Qur'an.”
Robert Spencer.
“We may lie and cheat Gentiles. In the Talmud it says: It is permitted for Jews to cheat Gentiles.”
From The Toadstool, children's book published by Julius Streicher.
5 Recognizing the true nature of Muslims/Jews can be difficult.
“There is no reliable way for American authorities to distinguish jihadists and potential jihadists from peaceful Muslims.”
Robert Spencer.
"Just as it is often hard to tell a toadstool from an edible mushroom, so too it is often very hard to recognize the Jew as a swindler and criminal."
From The Toadstool, children's book published by Julius Streicher.
6 The evidence against Muslims/Jews is in their holy books.
“What exactly is ‘hate speech’ about quoting Qur’an verses and then showing Muslim preachers using those verses to exhort people to commit acts of violence, as well as violent acts committed by Muslims inspired by those verses and others?”
Robert Spencer.
“In Der Stuermer no editorial appeared, written by me or written by anyone of my main co-workers, in which I did not include quotations from the ancient history of the Jews, from the Old Testament, or from Jewish historical works of recent times.”
Julius Streicher.
7 Islamic/Jewish texts encourage violence against non-believers.
“'And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter...' -- 2:191.”
Koranic verse quoted by Robert Spencer on Jihadwatch.org.
“'And when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally: men and women and children, even the animals.' (Deuteronomy 7:2.).”
Biblical verse quoted by Julius Streicher in Der Stuermer.
8 Christianity is peaceful while Islam/Judaism is violent.
“There is no Muslim version of 'love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you' or 'if anyone strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other also'.”
Robert Spencer.
“The Jew is not being taught, like we are, such texts as, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,' or 'If you are smitten on the left cheek, offer then your right one.'"
Julius Streicher.
9 Muslims/Jews are uniquely violent.
"(Islam) is the only major world religion with a developed doctrine and tradition of warfare against unbelievers."
Robert Spencer.
"No other people in the world has such prophecies. No other people would dare to say that it was chosen to murder and destroy the other peoples and steal their possessions."
Julius Streicher.
10 Criticising Muslims/Jews is not incitement to violence against Muslims/Jews.
“There is nothing in anything that I have ever written that could be reasonably construed as an incitement to violence against anyone.”
Robert Spencer.
“Allow me to add that it is my conviction that the contents of Der Stuermer as such were not (incitement). During the whole 20 years, I never wrote in this connection, 'Burn Jewish houses down; beat them to death.' Never once did such an incitement appear in Der Stuermer.”
Julius Streicher.
Notes:
Robert Spencer quotes;
(1) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781
http://www.ourbeacon.com/cgi-bin/bbs60x/webbbs_config.pl/md/read/id/314123119154008
(2) http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/07/anders-breivik-and-the-echo-chamber.html
(3) http://freedomdefense.typepad.com/about.html
(4) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781
(5) http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/08/australian-pol-to-oppose-islamic-immigration.html
(6) http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/07/daniel-greenfield-in-defense-of-robert-spencer.html
(7) http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/08/wapo-do-critics-actually-read-the-koran-uh-yeah.html
(8) http://books.google.ie/books?id=eanFm7hiM1cC&pg=PA27
(9) http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/01/what-is-a-moderate-muslim.html
(10) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00hz34g
Sources for Julius Streicher quotes;
http://propagander.tripod.com/js2.html
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/story5.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Streicher.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Giftpilz.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/secretplan.html
Internet Crusaders target all Muslims, not just extremists.
www.twitter.com/colmobroin
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bloody good post, excellent referencing so no one can refute the evidence you have presented in a calm and calculated manner.
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for putting this together.
ReplyDeleteI think of Der Sturmer every time I hear the anti-Muslims quoting (and interpreting) Qur'an lines as if it proves some violent essence of the religion.
That's exactly what Streicher did with the Old Testament. He said those violent scripture lines told the real and complete truth about millions of Jewish people and their diverse lives and beliefs.
If you want to know about Islam, get to know some Muslims. The same with Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism - the religion is the people. Stop saying things about Muslims unless you've talked with them about it.
Thanks Anonymous 1 & 2 - here is a description of a blasphemy case Jewish groups in Germany took against Streicher - it will sound eerily familiar.
ReplyDelete“In its decision, the court stressed the difficulty of evaluating exact meanings of certain sections of Jewish law, particularly when presented in translation. The judges agreed that it was difficult to determine the exact extent to which specific arguments in the Zohar, the Talmud, or the Torah might be considered valid in contemporary German society. They also conceded that the defendants gave the impression of being extraordinarily well-read in Jewish law and its esoterica. These very facts, however, worked to their condemnation. A man with the specific knowledge Streicher had manifested day after day in court should be well aware that he could not hope to use material dating from the Middle Ages to describe behavior patterns in the Weimar Republic. He should also be aware that the meanings of the passages cited were by no means as plain as Der Sturmer asserted week after week.”
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=395155
Thanks for the thought-provoking comparisons. I think you're dead-on, but there's one thing I think needs to be highlighted lest the Islamophobes weasel out of responsibility for their demagoguery. A critical fact to remember when considering their claims is how the snippets of classical medieval texts that they cite ad nauseam to "prove" that Islam and Muslims are inherently antithetical to modern Western values are not interpeted the same by most Muslims. When the Spencers of the Islamophobic intellectual swamp claim to be simply "citing chapter and verse" and cram their screeds full of impressive-seeming footnotes, it's important remember that a very fundamental problem often remains in their "scholarship": very few modern Muslim scholars agree that these decontextualized facts apply in the way that the Islamophobes claim, and the few that DO are the off-their-rocker extremists that Spencer and company claim to be fighting (but whom they ironically support by tirelessly working to marginalize other, more intelligent and theologically moderate Muslim voices that aren't, to be frank, political sell-outs if not bizarre self-haters)! They bash a straw religion, but one that's very cleverly dressed up to look like the Real McCoy, and exploit ignorance of how differently religious authority functions and evolves in Islam compared to that of Christendom to spread fear and hatred. Thankfully, people are slowly waking up to the fraud they've perpetrated on Western political life and the need for more balanced, intellectually honest discussions of the very real challenges we face today in interfaith relations around the world.
ReplyDeleteSvend, from what I've read and heard from Spencer et al, they seem to begin by saying that Islam is violent, Muslims wants to conquer the world etc. When someone counters this point they say that it must be true because Al Qaeda, the Taliban etc say so. It sounds like a circular argument.
ReplyDeleteSo as per Spencer only a small fringe group i.e. Al Qaeda in the whole muslim world got the actual meaning of Islam? What an insult to rest of us. Also he is not doing any favour to his country or humanity by trying to persuade muslims on his version of Islam. The good thing is that most muslims will not buy any interpetation of Islam from Spancer who clearly has a ... bias (Understatment of the century :)
DeleteSalam (Peace baby)Alaykoom: Right on ! It's just not Cricket, is it then?
ReplyDeleteAnd besides, 20 to 25 lunatic fanatics, of 911, Should constitute a Police action by the injured party- Not BLOODY world War 3! I mean really-think everyone has themselves hyped into this "global war against terror" Correct me if I am wrong but By Definition, is that not WW 3?
ReplyDeleteRobert Spencer has responded to the post, sort of.
ReplyDelete"This latest mass murder in the name of Islam and jihad comes as Islamic supremacists in the U.S. are pushing with renewed fervor the discredited meme that "Muslims are the new Jews," and that resistance to the jihad and Islamic supremacism is equivalent to Nazism and tending toward genocide, with anti-jihadists cast as Nazi propagandists. Aside from the obvious facts, such as that anti-jihadists oppose the killing of innocents, detention camps, etc., and are standing for human rights, jihadist actions like this one show just how grotesque that comparison really is: it is equating the victims of earlier mass murders -- the Jews of Europe -- with the perpetrators of mass murders today."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/11/nigeria-islamic-jihadists-boast-of-murdering-67-people.html
Either he is being dishonest by claiming that I'm comparing treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany with treatment of terrorists today, or he is making a blanket statment that 'Muslims' are "the perpetrators of mass murders" - which would confirm what I said he was doing.
Also the claim that anti-jihadists oppose the killing of innocents is not true as the quote in the main article from Spencer's colleague, John Joseph Jay, clearly shows.
"old fashion war with wholesale slaughter including indiscriminate death of innocents and babes. down to the last muslim, if necessary."
http://middleclassdub.blogspot.com/2011/10/internet-crusaders-target-all-muslims_31.html
There are other examples of 'anti-jihadists' calling for mass killings of Muslims, when Osama Bin Laden was killed Debbie Schuessel said "one down 1.8 billion to go...many of ‘em inside U.S. borders".
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/36592/whoa-osama-bin-laden-dead-but-wont-make-much-diff-amid-growin-islamic-threat-to-west/
What a heap of cerebral dung you served up here, comrade Broin. First of all 1.3 billion and the second largest religious group on this planet makes not exactly a minority, does it?
ReplyDeleteNext you think it smart to align verifyable quotes from Islamic scripture and facts held up by Spencer with the phantasmological Elders of Zion babble of Herrn Streicher?
Get real!
How about you align the Streicher utterances with similar nonsense from Lenin, Trotzki or Stalin addressing the arch enemies of the proletariat?
No Spencer, Horowitz, Geller, Bat Ye'Or, Falacci or Wilders has ever killed or threatend to kill anyone.
Spot the contrast to millions murdered by the Nazis, Fascists, Marxists and Islamists? Grow a brain!
Maths does not seem to be your strong point, so I'll give you a hand.
DeleteThere are 7.149 billion human beings on the planet.
7.149 - 1.3 = 5.849
1.3 billion Muslims.
5.849 billion non-Muslims.
See if you can spot which is the bigger number.
Thank you very much for this wonderful post. Spencer is no scholar, he's just an extremist who is funded to do his job.
ReplyDeleteThank you Anonymous.
ReplyDeleteRaoul, I'm not that familiar with what Lenin, Trotsky or Stalin wrote but I do knowt they demonized sections of the Russian population, the aristocracy, capitalists and the kulaks for example and murdered many thousands of them. I'd recommend Gulag by Anne Applebaum for an insight into the appaling crimes of the USSR.
I don't see how that justifies what Spencer does. When you're using the exact same Bible verse ('turn the other cheek') as Julius Streicher, to demonize a religious group you really have to take a good look at what you're doing.
Also FYI close associates of Spencer and Geller have endorsed violence and genocide against Muslims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t78VIKDTJeg
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/08/03/890055/-SIOA-co-founder-kill-your-liberal-relatives-and-all-Muslims
FYI I deleted a comment that included a derogatory term for Muslims - I don't allow terms like that about Muslims or any other community on this blog.
ReplyDeletePeople like Robert Spencer & Pamela Geller provide the mood music for the likes of Henry Jackson Society & Center for Social Cohesion who in turn provide an intellectual base for the likes of the BNP & EDL.
ReplyDeleteSpencer, EDL, Mad Mel, Douglas Murray, not to mention a few mainstream Muzzie-bashing UK politicians - they all puke into the same vomitorium, however respectable their sick.
ReplyDeleteHow much against us. I am so surprised. I mean I understand that people have extremist views on both ends but for love of God killing of all 1.8 billion.. I mean what the hell... Dose this guy even no me or my 3 year old daughter along with other 1.8 billion muslims? But he has no problem advoacting killing of all with no distrinction at all. May God have mercy on state of Humaniy.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the odius Col. Kevin Myers and his INM buddy Ian 'i am a racist' O'Doherty who spew out vile stuff about Muslims and indeed immigrants in general using the most obscene stereotypes. Well, they abuse just about anyone they don't like. Lest they be reminded that their columns frequently find there way onto BNP websites.
ReplyDelete